Comments for Faith Seeking Understanding http://stnicksmt.org/blog An internal discussion of information, ideas, issues, books, movies, or anything else of interest to members of St. Nicholas' Episcopal church in Midland, Texas. At this time, the blog is for St. Nicholas' members and friends, and is moderated by Fr. Jim. Feel free to Comment on any post. For more information on Posting and using the blog, click the page "About this Blog" to your right. Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:42:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on Both Service Times to Change on September 12 by Laura Brown http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/08/28/both-service-times-to-change-on-september-12/comment-page-1/#comment-724 Laura Brown Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:42:12 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=113#comment-724 Great compromise. Even greater article in the MRT, Jim. Laura Great compromise. Even greater article in the MRT, Jim.
Laura

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by Kathy White http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-716 Kathy White Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:23:47 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-716 JUST CURIOUS: For all that attended the consecration of the new HT rector, did anyone hear the idea of how to grow a successful Church? The rector from South Dakota presented the 4 criteria found to be crucial that came out of the Methodist survey. The only one I can remember is the #1(first) one..small group formation and how necessary it is to get to know each other (intimacy) rather than the quick Hi, how are you surface chat which I suppose, its better than a sharp stick in the eye, mind you. I see EFM does that for folks. Choir,Kitchen angels, handbells and my qigong class, as well do the same. I am beginning to feel that through my DOK involvement. What were the other 3 points? Is there anyone not feeling apart of our Church or doesn't have a small group to get to know people at a deeper , more satisfying level? Also, point was made that there is nothing like sitting in a large worship service and then feeling so alone because we need God with skin on Him to feel apart of and not lonely/isolated? And one more thought, are people of our church spreading themselves"too thin" amongst our programs and becoming tired, depleted and the such? Are their too many programs and not enough people? Are the programs not really hitting the mark and could be let go? I suppose this what the vestry covers? Maybe I need to learn more by sitting in a Vestry mtg. JUST CURIOUS: For all that attended the consecration of the new HT rector, did anyone hear the idea of how to grow a successful Church?
The rector from South Dakota presented the 4 criteria found to be crucial that came out of the Methodist survey. The only one I can remember is the #1(first) one..small group formation and how necessary it is to get to know each other (intimacy) rather than the quick Hi, how are you surface chat which I suppose, its better than a sharp stick in the eye, mind you.
I see EFM does that for folks. Choir,Kitchen angels, handbells and my qigong class, as well do the same.
I am beginning to feel that through my DOK involvement.
What were the other 3 points?
Is there anyone not feeling apart of our Church or doesn’t have a small group to get to know people at a deeper , more satisfying level?
Also, point was made that there is nothing like sitting in a large worship service and then feeling so alone because we need God with skin on Him to feel apart of and not lonely/isolated?
And one more thought, are people of our church spreading themselves”too thin” amongst our programs and becoming tired, depleted and the such? Are their too many programs and not enough people? Are the programs not really hitting the mark and could be let go?
I suppose this what the vestry covers? Maybe I need to learn more by sitting in a Vestry mtg.

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by Kathy White http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-715 Kathy White Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:11:31 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-715 Thoroughly enjoyed your sermon on humility! thank you, Father Jim! Thoroughly enjoyed your sermon on humility! thank you, Father Jim!

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by Kathy White http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-714 Kathy White Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:10:27 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-714 I like this Erin..btw where have you been? Miss seeing you! This could be great for families and the young and "young at heart" factions of St. Nick's! We could advertise, too!! Flyers at Food pantry to the families there and flyers to neighboring homes, schools and our episcopal school, Trinity School! I like this Erin..btw where have you been? Miss seeing you!
This could be great for families and the young and “young at heart” factions of St. Nick’s! We could advertise, too!! Flyers at Food pantry to the families there and flyers to neighboring homes, schools and our episcopal school, Trinity School!

]]> Comment on Service Times Note by Kathy White http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/25/service-times-note/comment-page-1/#comment-713 Kathy White Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:03:34 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=103#comment-713 Hooray for compromise and unity of Spirit on the new times for worship! Thank you!! I sincerely appreciate the idea of the later 5:30 service for it's casual, contemporary, evening collect type of service! One of my Qigong participants that makes the drive from Odessa to be here at 4pm Sunday Qigong is glad for the opportunity to go right on into a worship service after we have been stilling our minds and hearts through Qigong class. Thanks everyone for your willingness to try new and different ideas! Hooray for compromise and unity of Spirit on the new times for worship! Thank you!!
I sincerely appreciate the idea of the later 5:30 service for it’s casual, contemporary, evening collect type of service!
One of my Qigong participants that makes the drive from Odessa to be here at 4pm Sunday Qigong is glad for the opportunity to go right on into a worship service after we have been stilling our minds and hearts through Qigong class.

Thanks everyone for your willingness to try new and different ideas!

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by Fr. Jim http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-665 Fr. Jim Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:40:04 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-665 Below is the article that ran Friday, August 27th in the Midland Paper _________________ Of all of the many egregious issues flying about in the current “Culture Wars” that involve religion, probably the one that irritates me the most is all the controversy about science and religion—as if these two enterprises were locked in some sort of battle to the death over a piece of land called “truth”. Biology, geology, and the various applications of the theory of evolution seem the areas of contemporary science most often involved. Now, I come to this as a person of faith with a deep reverence for the Bible, and not as a scientist—so I will engage it from a faith perspective. To paraphrase Anselm, I come with faith, and I seek to understand. The best answer to this whole science/religion question that I have found is about sixteen hundred years old; and comes from Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis, better known as St. Augustine. He was Bishop of the North African town of Hippo (now modern Annaba) and one of the greatest theologians the Western Church has ever produced. Augustine developed much of his thinking in this area during the fifteen years he spent writing a commentary on the Book of Genesis. Here is a thumbnail of what he says: First, God has given us two ‘books’ that reveal who God is and what God is about: These are the Book of Nature (which is the natural world itself) and the Book of Scripture, the Bible. They compliment one another; and both Scripture and the natural world reveal God’s truth, as both have God’s hand on them. Together, they speak a single truth, and they are, at their deepest level, in accord. The Book of Nature, the world we experience, is the easier to read and to understand, as it was created for all people, and it is ‘read’ by paying careful attention to the natural world and drawing conclusions from what is observed. (Which is very much like what science does these days.) The natural world, Augustine insists—and we continue to discover—leads to truth. The Book of Scripture also leads to truth, but it is harder to read and to interpret, especially in the literal sense. That’s easy enough to see even now by looking at the rich and diverse interpretations of virtually any important passage of Scripture. There are literally thousands of these for most any passage one chooses. Interpretation is difficult. Also, Scripture and Nature inform each other. Augustine says that interpretation of biblical passages must be informed by the current state of demonstrable knowledge; and he warned against the danger of embarrassing the reputation of Christianity by being ignorant or dismissive of the demonstrated scientific knowledge of the day. That was good advice in the year 400, and it’s good advice today. We need to understand these two sources of God’s truth together. So, Augustine concludes, when the Book of Nature, (our observations of the world) and the Book of Scripture seem to conflict or to contradict one another, what needs to be done is to look again at one’s interpretation of the Book of Scripture. That’s where the problem will be. To hold stubbornly to an interpretation of Scripture in the face of the clear observations of Nature is not only to embarrass Christianity, but it is also to miss the truth that is being told by Nature and the truth that is being told by Scripture. It is great wisdom like this from the long and deep tradition of Christian thought that seems so often missing from so much contemporary debate. A respect for reason, coupled with a respect for the Scriptures and the ancient traditions of interpretation, can go a long way toward putting some of today’s clamor to rest. The Rev. James Liggett is Rector of St. Nicholas’ Episcopal Church in Midland. Below is the article that ran Friday, August 27th in the Midland Paper

_________________

Of all of the many egregious issues flying about in the current “Culture Wars” that involve religion, probably the one that irritates me the most is all the controversy about science and religion—as if these two enterprises were locked in some sort of battle to the death over a piece of land called “truth”. Biology, geology, and the various applications of the theory of evolution seem the areas of contemporary science most often involved.

Now, I come to this as a person of faith with a deep reverence for the Bible, and not as a scientist—so I will engage it from a faith perspective. To paraphrase Anselm, I come with faith, and I seek to understand.

The best answer to this whole science/religion question that I have found is about sixteen hundred years old; and comes from Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis, better known as St. Augustine. He was Bishop of the North African town of Hippo (now modern Annaba) and one of the greatest theologians the Western Church has ever produced.

Augustine developed much of his thinking in this area during the fifteen years he spent writing a commentary on the Book of Genesis. Here is a thumbnail of what he says: First, God has given us two ‘books’ that reveal who God is and what God is about: These are the Book of Nature (which is the natural world itself) and the Book of Scripture, the Bible. They compliment one another; and both Scripture and the natural world reveal God’s truth, as both have God’s hand on them. Together, they speak a single truth, and they are, at their deepest level, in accord.

The Book of Nature, the world we experience, is the easier to read and to understand, as it was created for all people, and it is ‘read’ by paying careful attention to the natural world and drawing conclusions from what is observed. (Which is very much like what science does these days.) The natural world, Augustine insists—and we continue to discover—leads to truth.

The Book of Scripture also leads to truth, but it is harder to read and to interpret, especially in the literal sense. That’s easy enough to see even now by looking at the rich and diverse interpretations of virtually any important passage of Scripture. There are literally thousands of these for most any passage one chooses. Interpretation is difficult.

Also, Scripture and Nature inform each other. Augustine says that interpretation of biblical passages must be informed by the current state of demonstrable knowledge; and he warned against the danger of embarrassing the reputation of Christianity by being ignorant or dismissive of the demonstrated scientific knowledge of the day. That was good advice in the year 400, and it’s good advice today. We need to understand these two sources of God’s truth together.

So, Augustine concludes, when the Book of Nature, (our observations of the world) and the Book of Scripture seem to conflict or to contradict one another, what needs to be done is to look again at one’s interpretation of the Book of Scripture. That’s where the problem will be. To hold stubbornly to an interpretation of Scripture in the face of the clear observations of Nature is not only to embarrass Christianity, but it is also to miss the truth that is being told by Nature and the truth that is being told by Scripture.

It is great wisdom like this from the long and deep tradition of Christian thought that seems so often missing from so much contemporary debate. A respect for reason, coupled with a respect for the Scriptures and the ancient traditions of interpretation, can go a long way toward putting some of today’s clamor to rest.

The Rev. James Liggett is Rector of St. Nicholas’ Episcopal Church in Midland.

]]> Comment on God in America by Fr. Jim http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/25/god-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-510 Fr. Jim Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:51:20 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=100#comment-510 I forgot to post here that we have raised the money we needed to be the primary local sponsor of God in America for this area--Great news. We are now working on what we want to say in our 15 seconds of fame, the time we have for an ad that will be played on PBS during and around the show. I forgot to post here that we have raised the money we needed to be the primary local sponsor of God in America for this area–Great news. We are now working on what we want to say in our 15 seconds of fame, the time we have for an ad that will be played on PBS during and around the show.

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by jane Wolf http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-507 jane Wolf Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:31:47 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-507 FARMERS MARKET: Per the City regulations: It will be necessary to apply for a "temporary land use permit" to use our parking lot for any kind of outdoor sale. There would be a public hearing at the City Council, to which neighbors could come if they wished -- to support or oppose. The Council could grant or deny the permit. IF WE WANT TO HAVE A FARMER'S MARKET, I'd suggest (1) we identify potential 'vendors' who would be willing to sell at our location and (2) canvass at least the folks who back up to our property to let them know our plans (and try to gain support). All that would take a few weeks -- which doesn't leave much of the "summer growing season", so it is doesn't work, we haven't invested much time. If it does seem to work, we can be ready for next year! Maybe some enterprising souls would like to can produce for sale at Heavenly Holidays?? FARMERS MARKET: Per the City regulations: It will be necessary to apply for a “temporary land use permit” to use our parking lot for any kind of outdoor sale. There would be a public hearing at the City Council, to which neighbors could come if they wished — to support or oppose. The Council could grant or deny the permit. IF WE WANT TO HAVE A FARMER’S MARKET, I’d suggest (1) we identify potential ‘vendors’ who would be willing to sell at our location and (2) canvass at least the folks who back up to our property to let them know our plans (and try to gain support). All that would take a few weeks — which doesn’t leave much of the “summer growing season”, so it is doesn’t work, we haven’t invested much time. If it does seem to work, we can be ready for next year! Maybe some enterprising souls would like to can produce for sale at Heavenly Holidays??

]]> Comment on Let Our Light Shine by jane Wolf http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/07/19/let-our-light-shine/comment-page-1/#comment-506 jane Wolf Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:46:28 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=89#comment-506 I really like the idea of hosting a farmer's market on Wednesday evenings and have heard about a farmer who has already tried a Wed pm market (not sure where). Check out Porters Famers Market on facebook. His location is 5401 South County Road 1140. I'm going to check with the city to see if such would be permitted at our location before we pursue this further. I think it is a really COOL idea! Jane I really like the idea of hosting a farmer’s market on Wednesday evenings and have heard about a farmer who has already tried a Wed pm market (not sure where). Check out Porters Famers Market on facebook. His location is 5401 South County Road 1140.

I’m going to check with the city to see if such would be permitted at our location before we pursue this further. I think it is a really COOL idea!

Jane

]]> Comment on What About Television? by Jane Wolf http://stnicksmt.org/blog/2010/08/09/what-about-television/comment-page-1/#comment-505 Jane Wolf Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:14:19 +0000 http://stnicksmt.org/blog/?p=108#comment-505 Misty, You've raised an important point. The funds for the sponsorhip of God In America are NOT coming from the parish budget. Those funds are coming from individual parishioners, over and above their regular pledges. It is our hope that folks who watch that series may realize that St. Nick's is a more open-minded church than they might be accustomed to. For those who've been wishing for such a church, this sponsorship may encourage them to visit us. Hope so anyway! Misty, You’ve raised an important point.

The funds for the sponsorhip of God In America are NOT coming from the parish budget. Those funds are coming from individual parishioners, over and above their regular pledges.

It is our hope that folks who watch that series may realize that St. Nick’s is a more open-minded church than they might be accustomed to. For those who’ve been wishing for such a church, this sponsorship may encourage them to visit us. Hope so anyway!

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